Clock stops every 50 minutes.

Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:15 pm     Post subject: Clock stops every 50 minutes.

I have a cable driven movement which is about 15-20 years old. I stopped running. I've oiled it but is still won't run. In investigating, I find that if I help it along there is about a 10 minute "hump" and then it'll run fine for the next 50 minutes and then stop again. If I manually move the minute hand it has no effect until it is helped over the "hump" again. The minute hand spindle/shaft appears to have plenty of 'play' so I don't know where it's binding. Any ideas?

Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:19 pm     Post subject:

I have a clock with a keininger movement and sometimes if it is allowed to run down it will take some time for me to get the clock running again. I believe what happens is the chime indexing gets fouled up due to the chimes unwinding before the time does. I sometimes can correct the problem by running the hands backwards several hours and then advancing them forward in 15 minute increments making sure that the chime cycle completes each time. I found that this method seems to clear any uncompleted chime cycles that may have occurred.

Jim

Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:12 pm     Post subject:

I haven't done that ...yet. Even if the chimes are in "silent" mode the stoppage occurs. When ever I turn the chimes on, the same effect happens. It could be a movement/chime conflict...just not sure how to correct it.
FairlawnHokie

Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 1:42 pm     Post subject:

Although my mechanical movement experience is general at best, I have always been told that moving the hands backwards is a big "no-no". I would suggest having a qualified repairperson take a look at your movement. Perhaps a part (or two) is worn and in need of replacement.

Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:44 am     Post subject:

That's interesting. When I bought my Grandfather clock the old guy that sold it to me told me to set it backwards. That surprised me too! I've been doing it ever since without any problems on all my windups. I looked on the internet for this subject and found this quote. "For timepieces or striking clocks, never turn the hands backwards without proper advice. Instead, stop the clock and wait until the time catches up with that shown on the dial, then re-start it." He(she) didn't explain "proper advice". I also found this one. "To set the time, move ONLY THE MINUTE HAND counter Clockwise (backwards) until hour and minute hand are at the correct time. DO NOT MOVE THE HOUR HAND WHEN SETTING THE TIME. The hour hand will move automatically when the minute hand is moved. By moving the minute hand counter Clockwise it is not necessary to wait for the Grandfather Clock to chime as the minute hand passes each quarter hour. The movement has a self correcting feature which synchronizes the chimes with the time. If after setting the Grandfather Clock on time, it does not chime properly, permit it to operate 2 hours to correct itself.
CAUTION ON MOVEMENTS WITH AUTOMATIC CHIME SEQUENCING: The chime selection lever should not be in the “Auto” position when moving the hands. Moving the hands in either the Clockwise or counter Clockwise direction while the automatic chime sequencing is in operation could damage the chime mechanism.

There seems to be 2 schools of thought on this subject. One thing is for sure. If I meet any excessive resistance I will stop and go forward until the next chime cycle completes and then continue to the correct time.

Jim

Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 1:59 pm     Post subject:

Hmmmm, I wonder what "proper advice" refers to as well...

My old boss always told me not to speak beyond my own experience unless I had the information to back it up. Now that I am a few years older and wiser, I attempt to live by those words whenever I can. I wish that I could substantiate either claim, but (again) my experience is general at best. I am not saying that either school of thought is definately wrong or right, but I readily admit that some aspects do not apply to that which I have direct, albeit limited, experience with.

That being said, I am definately curious. This challenges me to dig a bit deeper in my research, run tests, observe, and experiment to find supporting information for either claim. It is through this Empirical approach that I gain true knowledge on any specific matter at hand.

One thing is for certain... You can't always believe everything you read on the internet (although I also recognize the irony in these words as I type them).

Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:31 am     Post subject:

I've been repairing all types of clocks for about 40 years so know a little about how they operate by now.

Reproduction grandfather (proper term = longcase) clocks which are thetype mentioned on this thread are usually built with a mechanism for self-correcting the chimes. this is done usually with one longer lifting piece on the centre shaft cannon pinion than the other three for the quarters.

The reason your clock probably only goes for a while is down to lack of regular cleaning and oiling and this is the problem with 99% of the clocks i have fixed over the 40 years.
People think it's ok to have their cars serviced every year because it's vital machine used nearly every day.
Clocks are mechanical too and need a service every few years at the very least to keep them running in good order - people don't even think about their clock needing a service and think it will run for ever without maintenance, would your car???

Then i get the clock and take the movement out which is worn out due to the dirt build up acting like grinding paste and clogged to the hilt with cobwebs and gunk.
"IT ONLY NEEDS A CLEAN AND OIL PLEASE" yeh right - "when was it last serviced"? "UMMMMM" = that's why it now needs a clean, bushes (bearing in a car - similar thing) etc before it will even run again let alone operate correctly.

Now with newer replacement movements comes a new problem - some only run a few years at the most before stooping because they need a clean and oil and people cannot understand why their clock ran for 20 years and it now it won't run 3 years or more without a service.

It's all down to how much dust settles on your clock and gets into the mechanical movement that determines how long it will be before it needs a service.
The other issue is oil - I get a lot of clocks coming in that someone has oiled themselves - trouble is they have put oil on the wheels and plates - if fact everywhere because they think it will make the clock go.
Yes it will - for short while - then the dust sticks to all that oil and makes a right mess until it's sticky and gumms up the works. Then the poor repairer has to remove all that gooey mess before he can even see if the movement is worn or worth messing about with.

Taking hands backwards - there is a brass or steel lever that begins to lift up when the minute hand gets to 5 minutes before the hour and all the quarters. during this lift (which progressively gets higher and higher as it reaches every quarter) wheels on the chime and strike move a bit which signals a 'warning' that it is ready to operate when the quarter is reached and then drops which releases the mechanism and lets the wheels turn in sequence to chime and strike as appropriate.
By taking the hands backwards you can possibly bend or break or force an action behind the dial that causes an error in the operation of the clock.
On the better quality clocks no damage can be done as a failsafe is built in. This better quality means no matter how many times you take the hands backwards you can do no damage as this lever will move both ways and only respond going forwards.


In summary - my advice is :
1) DON'T OIL THE MOVEMENT NO MATTER HOW TEMPTING
2) DON'T TRY AND ADJUST ANYTHING UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING - YOU COULD MAKE MATTERS WORSE.
3) DON'T TAKE THE HANDS BACKWARDS

CHRIS - as this is a comprehensive answer to most reasons why a clock stops would you consider making it a sticky at the top of the clock repair section? With an appropriate heading?
Thanks

Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 6:26 pm     Post subject:

Clokfxr - I can definately look into this. I do not do any programing for the forum - I just review post content and try to help with answers whenever I can. I will, however, be more than happy to look into this with our internet guru to see if it is something he can do.

Post script: Our previous internet guru was the guy who established the initial Klockit sticky note at the top of every forum subject. I will have to see if our new guy has the same capabilities. If not, rest assured that I will revisit your response to copy and paste it into other posts where it would be applicable.