Gilbert Mantel -1900's

Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 11:43 am     Post subject: Gilbert Mantel -1900's

Is anyone familiar with the Gilbert 1912 Mantel Clocks- What is a bim bam clock. What are the two cables running across the back of the movement and what type of movement does this indicate?

I am trying to purchase a clock that is the same as my grandfmother had. I know the appearance of the clock and the movement was stamped 1912 WL Gilbert Clock Co. As I recall the clock had a beautiful sound - possibly a westminister - Is this possible or do you think what I was hearing was the bim bam type . Most old Gilbert mantels are the 8 day strike on hour and bell on half. Is the bim - bam a different - I notice the bim bam ones on ebay appear to have those cables running across the back o f the movement. My grandmothers has what appears to be cables running across the rear. I have very limited access to the clock to examine it closer - a relative has it and is unwilling to let me look it over closer .

Please help me with thhis - I think I already mistakenly purchased the wrong one on ebay - oh well I don't want to make another mistake.

Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:31 pm     Post subject: Gilbert mantel clock

I'm not sure what you mean by "cables across the back of the movement".

A bim bam clock refers to the type of striking that it has. It strikes the number of hours on two gongs or chime rods in bim bam (or ding dong) pattern. This bim bam strike happens only on the hour and half hour. (some clocks only strike one note on the half hour to differentiate it from the hour strike). There are two hammers inside the clock to perform the bim bam striking.
Usually most older clocks only struck the hours on a coil gong. Some clocks distinguished the hour from the half by having the half hours strike on a bell instead of the gong.
A westminster chime clock on the other hand plays a portion of the westminster melody each quarter hour, progressing from four notes on the quarter hour, to eight notes on the half, twelve notes on the three quarter and finally sixteen notes on the hour, followed by striking the correct number of times for that hour. One easy way to tell if a clock has westminster chimes or not is to count the key holes in the dial. If it has three winding shafts it is probably Westminster. It may even have additional chimes. It would have four hammers or possibly more for the chimes and hour strike.
Two winding holes in the dial indicates that the clock is an hour/half hour strike which may or may not be bim bam.
Although Gilbert was in business for many years I don't often see Westminster chime models made by that firm show up for sale on eBay or elsewhere, although I'm sure they exist.
The "big seven" American clock manufacturers (of which Gilbert was one) that were in business for many years, all made a variety of clocks to suit every taste. All of them followed the fashions of the times. In some cases they tended to copy one another in styles and features too. Sadly, not a single one of those companies is still in business today.

Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 4:27 pm     Post subject:

The two cables are likely tone bars and I suspect the clock is a bim bam style - I can't recall if I saw 2 hammers but I do know there are only 2 holes for the wind key and a small one at the top ( not sure what that is for) I will try to get my hands on one of these - thsy are occasionally on ebay and ther is one fellow here that has approx. 50 old black case clocks - Just maybe one is the correct Gilbert.

How tough is it to get one of these old clocks working if they currently don't work - I know it depoends on what is wrong but were they prone to ruined gears or usually just dirty and a good cleaning gets them going??

The one i already purchased is not the bimbam but is in working condition - 8 day strike on hour and half. I need a glass for the face. Can one just buy the glass and how would it be held in its rim??

Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 10:55 am     Post subject: Gilbert mantel clock

The third smaller hole in the dial is a fast/slow adjustment. The original winding key would have been double ended with the smaller end for adjusting the speed.
Surprisingly many of these clocks have survived with little or no servicing. You just wind them up and they'll continue to run, more or less accurately. Sometimes oiling the movement is enough for the clock to continue to operate. Unfortunately any wear and tear may go unnoticed until the clock refuses to run any longer. About the only hint of trouble is if a mainspring breaks and has to be replaced. Worn bushings, needed cleaning or lubrication is never noticed until the clock requires a major overhaul if it is to run any longer. By then the wear may have reached an advanced stage. As you might guess, original parts for older clocks are the hardest thing to find. Usually mainsprings and bushings are available. Replacement dials, hands and some trim work may also be found. You have to decide just how much your clock is worth to you as far as repair/restoration dollars are concerned.

Clock parts supply houses stock replacement glass in flat and convex styles in various diameters to fit most clocks. Dial glass is held in place by a retaining ring or by bendable tabs inside the bezel. If the tabs have been snapped off and lost new tabs will have to be fabricated out of brass and soldered into place.

Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 3:07 pm     Post subject:

Gilbert - Normandy Chimes - How was Gilbert able to have chimes with only 2 hammers? I recently seen a clock that was supposed to have a Normandy Chime but one could only see two chime rods and two hammers. Could they also be a Westminister Chime with only two chime rods and two hammers?? In my grandmothers clock there was a note hand written indicating that the clock was a Westminister Chime but when I saw only 2 hammers and two chime rods I thought whomever wrote the note was mistaken.

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 11:22 am     Post subject: Gilbert mantel clock

The terms "chime" and "strike" have been used interchangeably for many years, although to be absolutely correct a clock that only counts the hours on a bell or gong is called a striking clock, while one that plays a melody on multiple rods or gongs (and usually every quarter hour) followed by a count of the hours is referred to as a chime clock.
A Westminster chime clock requires at least four hammers and rods or gongs sounding four separate notes in order to play the melody. Anything less is not a Westminster chime. Other chimes require even more notes in order to play their melody. (e.g. St Michaels, Whittington, Winchester, etc).
Some clock companies referred to bim bam striking as Normandy chimes.

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:24 pm     Post subject:

CLKWRX - Thank-you, Thank-you - You would not believe how difficult it was to get that simple answer for what should have been a simple question. I have tried to get that clarified from many (so called) clock people - locally and from those selling clocks on ebay - no straight answers.

Many Gilbert clocks have 2 hammer (bim bam) movements - They are not chimes but are often called chimes and occasionally called Normandy Chimes . People confuse real chimes with the bim bam "Normandy Chime" that uses only 2 chime rods and two hammers.

I don't think Gilbert made a true Westminister Chime in a mantel (Black) style clock - at least I have never seen one.