Hermle Movement Second Hand

Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 3:12 pm     Post subject: Hermle Movement Second Hand

I have a Hermle Movement in a 1998 vintqage Ridgeway long case clock. I recently noticed that the small second hand takes 48 ticks and 48 seconds to make one revolution (labeled as 60 seconds). I used an electronic timer to measure the revolution time. The clock keeps perfect time on its main face. Is this an idiosyncracy of the Hermle movement?
Tom

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:07 pm     Post subject:

I would check to make certain the second hand has not slipped off the pin shaft. Also check to make certain that the hand does not rub against the clock face (or any other hands). On most Hermle movements (if not all), the second hand (when an included option) is a friction fit. You could also check to see if the mount sleeve of the second hand has spread to a point where the second hand fits too loose on the pin shaft.

Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:18 pm     Post subject: Hermle Movement Second Hand

Chris,
Thanks for the reply. I don't think I have a slipping second hand for the following reasons:
The hand completes a "60 second" revolution in exactly 48 seconds repeatedly.
The hand movement is synchronous with the escapement ticks, so it doesn't act loose.
I'm thinking it's an incorrect gear driving the second hand.
The movement is a Hermle #1161 with an autobeat verge.
Tom

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 2:49 pm     Post subject:

If this is something you just recently noticed, I do not think it could be due to an incorrect gear driving the second hand (unless you had some sort of service performed just prior where parts were replaced). Was this a problem when you first started the clock? If a gear is incorrect, your movement would have been doing this from the onset.

As with an automobile, I prefer to start with the least expensive repair options first. In a lot of cases, a simple cleaning and oiling (which is standard maintanence with any mechanical movement) may solve a number of problems. Cleaning should be done every 3 to 5 years. Oiling should be done every one to three years (more arid climates may require more frequent oiling/cleaning). If you have not had the movement cleaned/oiled in some time, this would be the first place to start to see if you can get the clock (second hand) functioning properly. Note that cleaning/oiling is something that you can do (if you do not already do so). You can also take it to a qualified repair person.

Beyond this, you may want to have the movement looked at (most will automatically examine the movement if you take it in to be cleaned/oiled). A qualified repair person could inspect the movement to see if this is a slipping or worn gear (etc). From that point, you could request a quotation for repair.

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 6:31 pm     Post subject:

In antique clocks the seconds hand did not always count the proper seconds, as it was more of a design feature. Maybe the folks at Klockit can tell us if it is truly supposed to count the seconds.

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:28 pm     Post subject:

Hmmm.... After examining the Hermle Service Manual, and speaking with Klockit's mechanical technician, I found that there is something that you could additionally check for. Underneath the model number on the back plate, you should see a pendulum designation (usually indicated with a cm). Below that, there may be information in regard to the second hand movement. This is usally indicated as just a number (ex: "60"). If this hold true, then the number on the back of your movement might be less than 60 (possibly 48?), which would explain why the second hand would complete a rotation in 48 "clicks" rather than the norm of 60. As I understand, given that my knowledge is limited, this has something to do with movements which use (what Klockit calls) "short" pendulums as opposed to "long" pendulums. I guess short pendulums speed up the second hand (or complete the rotation of the second hand in less clicks than 60)? Sounds plausible... Which would mean that your movement is operating normally (and explains why it keeps proper time despite odd second hand movement).

This old dog learns new tricks everyday...

Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 1:34 am     Post subject: Hermle Movement Second Hand

I've had the clock for quite a few years, and am embarrassed to say that I'm sure it has been doing this for the time I've owned it. My 14 year old grandson was staring at the clock one day, and said that the second hand was moving too fast. I told him that this was impossible as the clock has kept perfect time for years.............. then I checked the clicks and the time, and indeed he is right.
The movement is stamped 114cm/60, so it seems that it should be 60 seconds per revolution - but it ain't!
The second hand shaft has two gears. A slightly larger one driven by the escapement gear, and a smaller one that drives the rest of the clock.
Unless it's a simple fix, I don't expect to mess with a clock that runs so well. My curiosity is what drives me to ask if this is normal.

Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 3:33 am     Post subject:

I would contact Mark Butterworth, he is a major distributor and is the guru of Hermle.

Butterworth Clocks, Inc.
5300 59th Ave. West, Muscatine, IA 52761
Tel: 563.263.6759 Fax: 563.263.0428
E-mail:butterworth@machlink.com

Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 5:48 pm     Post subject:

Hermle clocks have never been perfectly made over the last so many years.

I've come across this before. If you have a seconds escape wheel then by default you have a seconds pendulum = 39.4 inches long from suspension to centre of pendulum bob... Nothing to worry about if the clock goes ok.

On yours where the clock takes less ticks to make a minute means you have a longer pendulum fitted which ticks at a rate of 48 seconds per minute.
Probably made to case dimesions on design so it looked right rather than a short pendulum looking wrong in a long case - asthetically made rather than practical. The dials were obviously mass produced and Hermle didn't bother getting them remade - just fitted and hoped no one would take notice just like you said earlier.

Yours is obviously nowhere near antique as those were BETTER made and last a lot longer.

Just a word of advice from someone who services clocks - get it cleaned and oiled ona regular basis and it will last for years - i come across many of these that get worn out due to lack of regular servicing and i'm not just saying that because i repair them - if you can see the movemnt and see dirt in the wheels it.s a sign it needs a clean.

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:07 pm     Post subject: Hermle Movement Second Hand

After Clokfxr's input, and a more careful observation, the pendulum has a one second half-period, and again, the main clockface keeps perfect time. However, the second hand moves 7.5 degrees/tick vs. the proper 6 degrees/tick, thus making a "60 second" complete revolution in 48 seconds. I'll just consider this a "feature" of this clock, and leave it alone.
Thanks to all for getting me on the right path.
Tom

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:30 pm     Post subject:

Hi Tom,

Your clock is perfectly o.k if it keeps good time, many of the really old English Grandfather clocks have a seconds dial which is anything but !

48 divisions is quite common, as long as the seconds hand takes 60 seconds to travel one revolution, then all is well.

The gear ratios of the clock , or the number of teeth on the Escape wheel are the main factors here. If the pendulum was the wrong length the clock would not keep time.

Andrew.

http://www.clockmakersandrepairs.co.uk[/url]