Problems with outdoor clock selection

Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 5:53 pm     Post subject: Problems with outdoor clock selection

Hi,
We have a large outdoor clock/therm combo that we mounted on the deck railing of our lake cottage a few years ago. It was something we got at S_ams_Club, and is very large. I don't have it in front of me but it's mounted in a large square wrought-iron frame and I'm guessing from memory the clock face is at least 20 inches. It was atomic radio controlled, and yet ran this monstrousity off of a single AA battery. We left it up all winter, as we often visit there and it does get pretty cold. (Upstate NY) Needless to say, it has now died. I had assumed that the AA battery wasn't keeping up with it in cold weather, so I jury-rigged a D-cell holder with alligator clips which I clipped to the AA terminals. That didn't work either. Last weekend, I pulled the clock from the sealed glass face. It looked exactly like the one in your catalog. It had no second hand (I'll have to get measurements on the shafts), it had a nut on the end, then the hands pushed on. I recall I think that the minute hand had a flat on the shaft for location.

I'm more interested in functionality/durability rather than the atomic feature. Your "clearance" section of the web site listed a C-cell high torque movement, but has no data displaying with it, so I don't know if that will work. That's option 1.

Option 2 is going with the atomics. You list 101449 on sale for 8.00, but it's called a push-on movement, and I don't know what that means. My clock movement is held onto the face by four corner screws. I'm also assuming that this will not have enough torque for a longer set of hands like mine.

Then I see the 10171, but it is only available in one size. The description confuses me on this also; It says the Group A second hand is available as an option. Then it says the sweep second hand is required to set the clock?
I'm not sure what that means. Mine looks just like it, and I set the time by turning the little dial on the back and then pressing the red button rapidly a few times. I can't touch the second hand, since it will be sealed behind the clock glass.

When I pressed the button on my current clock movement, nothing happened. I pried open the case and saw that the circuit board pads where the battery "springs" against it was corroded. When I cleaned it, the clock did beep after I pressed the button, but then it stopped beeping, and the hands never moved. So I don't know if it is salvageable. I'm wondering if this fairly expensive clock I bought used the cheapo, not the high-torque motor, and that's why it died, in addition to the cold weather.

Or will none of the Chinese clock movements hold up long term? I'd certainly like to get more than two years out of it, but maybe that's not possible. That's why I thought about the high-torque unit with the C-battery, it would be preferable to me to adjust the time periodically if it at least worked. Anyway, thanks for any suggestions/help you can give.

John

Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:14 pm     Post subject:

There’s a lot to address here, but I will see what I can do.

1.) Most movements are not meant to operate in extreme weather conditions. If you must have the clock outside, I would suggest bringing the clock in during the Fall (and rainy weather) to ensure that movement failure does not occur down the road. However, please note that even this is not a guarantee. Weather and temperature are more than likely the reasons why your initial movement failed.

2.) You probably should replace the movement with a high torque movement (whether RC or standard). Since this is a large clock, anything less than a high torque movement could potentially result in constant loss of time. Generally, if your minute hand is over 7” in length (from the center of the mounting hub to the end of the hand), then you will require a high torque movement version.

3.) Second sweeps are usually an optional purchase, yet they are required to set our RC movement. The second hand steps in a certain way when you initially set the movement - something that will not be indicated by the other clock hands. While we say a second sweep is optional, you should anticipate purchasing one if you are going to buy an RC movement. You don't have to be able to touch the second hand - you just need to observe its movement to make certain the clock is catching the radio frequency from Fort Collins.

4.) RC movements are warranted for 1 year. The warranty, however, does not cover leaving the movement out in adverse weather conditions (especially the cold and rain). Unless a movement indicates that it is for outdoor use, then you should assume that it is for indoor use only. Most (if not all) of the quartz movements in our catalog are for indoor use. In fact, we sell a cover for our small quartz movements (non RC, non Pendulum) that allow the movement to operate in temperatures between 23 degrees F through 122 degrees F. Unfortunately, they have not developed a movement cover for RC, pendulum, and chiming movements as of this time.

I hope I was able to address all your comments and questions. Please feel free to reply back if you should have further concerns.

Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:51 am     Post subject: Re: outdoor clock

thanks Chris,
Sorry to be so wordy, but I tend to over supply info.
If they are not robust enough, I'm happy to pull it in for the fall when we take out the boats and docks. The clock itself is rather sheltered under a railing and does have a sealed glass face and a rear cover over the movement, but that doesn't do much for the cold temps. In the summer, it sits in direct afternoon sun and gets pretty hot actually, so I don't know if that's a problem, but we rarely get above high 80s.

I've gone and pulled the clock down. The hour hand is about 6 inches and the minute is at least 8.5, so I guess it fits the high torque requirement. Mine is marked on the back Atomix WWVB Atomic clock, (0) jewels unadjusted, pat. pend Quartez, and some faded stuff I can't read.

It is 0.66 inches thick, and 2.185 by 3.625. The OD of the threaded shaft is 0.285. The total length from the mounting face to the end of the threaded minute shaft is about 0.660. I don't know if there is any way externally to tell if this was originally a "high-torque" model. The OD of the hour shaft is approx. 0.198 inches and the minute hand is about 0.015 across the flats and about 0.130 total OD on the threaded portion of the shaft.

There does appear to be a rod coming up the center of the shaft which I'm presuming is for the sweep second hand, although this RC atomic clock definitely did not come with one. The setup procedure for this was turning the minute hand to 12:00 and then pressing the red button several times.

If you don't have hands as long as the ones we have now, I'd like to make sure that ours will fit your clocks. Also, I do see the high torque Atomic clock movement, but I don't see a regular quartz high-torque one on the associated page.

Also I mentioned I saw this high-torque C-cell clock on the Clearance page,
http://www.klockit.com/products/dept-130__sku-10097a.html , but it doesn't have any other info, such as dimensions or cost.

I'm leaning towards getting the most robust movement possible that will fit, even if it does not have the Atomic feature. That's more of a nicety.

Thanks again for all your time and answers. I look forward to getting this clock back on time!
John

Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:41 pm     Post subject:

Be as wordy as you like - - there's plenty of space in cyberland!

A standard high torque movement (non RC) would be something to the nature of #10115. If you perform a search, it should show you options for a short shaft as well (the stock number listed above is a long shaft version). Mounting diameter is 5/16" and movement depth is 5/8". The nice thing about this movement is that the movement cover (#10084 - I spoke of previously) will work with this standard high torque movement. This would be a great way to help protect your movement investment against the outside elements (for less than $1). Remember that the cover only helps the movement work between a temperature range of 23 degrees - 122 degrees (F). Also - the 10115 has a 6 year warranty.

I am not a familiar with the C-cell high torque movement, but do (personally) like to shy away from “press on hand” style movements (as the hand selection is larger for the standard I-shaft versions). This is also a clearance movement - and I am not certain how that will affect the warranty down the road. Also - the fact that the stock number is missing is a good indication that the movement is gone (and was simply missed when taking items off the internet site).

I am not certain if your existing hands will work with either movement (that would have to be tested). For example: If your minute (longer) hand has an I-shaft mounting hole (a hole which is more oval in shape rather than circular), then you would not be able to use your existing clock hands with the C-cell movement. Even if the existing hands are both press on, I can not confirm that they will actually fit the press on shaft of the C-cell.

As a general recommendation - - It may be best to order a new set of hands with the movement no matter what (this way, you would not have to incur extra shipping charges if the hands you have should not happen work). High torque hands are about $2.60 - so it would be the better value to do both the movement and hands at the same time.

So - - how does this add up? Looking at the 10115 (for example) - - The standard quartz high torque movement runs about $8. The cover (#10084) to help protect the movement is $.75. A set of hands (#66800 - similar to the size of your existing minute hand) runs about $2.60. Getting a working clock for under $20 (including shipping and handling charges) with a six year warranty… "priceless". Seriously, I think this is the most robust deal for your money (despite that it is without the RC feature).

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:35 pm     Post subject: Thanks for all your Help!

I ordered the parts as you described. My wife was disappointed I won't have the atomic feature anymore, but she'll get over it.

I will be thrilled to get this thing back up and running.

Your help and great value of parts is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
John